Even amongst an extended record of weird Donald Trump moments, this clip was a head-turner: The previous president asking his interviewer a collection of questions on his cocaine use. “That’s down and soiled, isn’t it?” Trump requested Theo Von, who interviewed him on August 20 for his YouTube podcast, This Previous Weekend.
The clip went viral nearly instantly, not solely as a result of it’s uncommon to listen to a presidential candidate so overtly discussing drug utilization, however as a result of Trump, for as soon as, appeared genuinely thinking about a dialog that wasn’t about himself. It was additionally an odd “…who?” second for these unfamiliar with Von, a mulleted slapstick comedian turned podcaster, within the fashion of Joe Rogan. Digital media has responded with a collection of Theo Von explainers, trying to convey what concerning the comparatively unobtrusive comedian could have caught Trump’s consideration.
However in truth, there actually isn’t that a lot to elucidate — not less than not about Von himself. The shifts in web tradition that introduced him his platform, although, are a bit extra fascinating.
Von — his full title is Theodor von Kurnatowski — is one thing of a one-size-fits-all commentator, one whose private political opinions appear anodyne sufficient to make him palatable to folks throughout the political spectrum; he interviewed Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) the week simply prior. With Trump, Von caught primarily to the private (mutual buddies from the world of UFC, Child Rock’s brother’s golf swing, sobriety, how good the Trump boys are at searching) earlier than getting calmly political (they briefly mentioned well being care reform however largely talked about how a lot they hate lobbyists). The interview’s large viral dialog about cocaine got here when Von tried in useless to get Trump to speak coverage relating to the opioid epidemic. The following chat about doing medicine was Trump redirecting the topic, but it surely was way more aligned with Von’s typical podcast conversations, which usually veer away from extra incendiary topics and towards subjects like wrangling drunk mall Santas.
A veteran of the identical early-2000s actuality TV trade that former Worry Issue host Rogan as soon as thrived in, Von first made his mark as a younger contestant on MTV’s actuality journey competitors present Highway Guidelines. He later gained acclaim on comedian competitors exhibits like Final Comedian Standing and Actuality Bites Again, holding his personal in opposition to different comedians like Amy Schumer and Tiffany Haddish. Within the early period of comedians turning into podcasters and vloggers, Von grew to become common as a visitor on different standups’ exhibits, all whereas his personal present, launched in 2016, took off and grew to its present viewers of practically 3 million subscribers.
The interview, which the pair alluded to having been orchestrated by UFC CEO Dana White, was apparently a part of a latest collection of drop-ins to UFC-adjacent podcasters, together with Von, Adin Ross, and Logan Paul. But there’s much more at play right here than Trump interesting to wrestling fandom. In his e-newsletter, author Max Learn coined the time period “dipshit outreach” to explain the form of everyman tour Trump and his operating mate Sen. JD Vance have launched into. Learn’s thesis is that Von, together with the opposite podcasts, vlogs, and livestreams that Trump has appeared on, appeal to a selected sort of Trump-loving demographic. As he places it, these are “guys who like ‘edgy,’ trollish, hedonistic, attention-seeking personalities.”
Von has skillfully branded himself as a relatable, down-to-earth sort, a Southern boy initially from what he’s described as the agricultural, poor aspect of Covington, Louisiana. He comes throughout as extra thinking about folks than of their politics, so we would consider Von as kind of on the healthful finish of the troll-magnet spectrum. That could be true in comparison with the opposite males on Trump’s roster, however he has had his moments.
Most notably, his 2015 look on Bertcast with Bert Kreischer contains an prolonged section through which Von repeatedly drops the n-word — arduous ‘r.’ Von couches his use in an anecdote through which he claims that Black youngsters in his neighborhood have been those mockingly utilizing the phrase, which he’s simply conveying to his viewers. He then proceeds, with Kreischer, to spend a number of minutes expounding upon why his use of the n-word on this context is ok, truly. That’s not the one time he and Kreischer defended the indefensible; final 12 months, he joined Kreischer’s present Two Bears, One Cave to do the identical form of performative justification — this time for white males doing blackface.
Whereas tough to hearken to, these conversations sum up what may set Von barely other than a few of his colleagues in comedy — he doesn’t assume simply anybody ought to have the ability to say the n-word due to free speech; he thinks he personally will get to say it, as a result of he one way or the other earned it. As for blackface, he doesn’t assume it ought to “depend” when it’s donned by somebody who’s marginalized otherwise, as a result of that individual additionally one way or the other earned it. That is, in America, an entire sort of man.
That is precisely the form of content material Von’s demographic loves and the form of contrarianism Trump himself delights in and gravitates towards. Although most of Von’s more moderen content material is inoffensive, it’s not insignificant that his recognition was constructed on this type of vibe.
Von is older than each Ross and Paul, who carry a extra direct attraction to Gen Z. However Von’s personal persona, whereas much less brash and irony-tinged, has its personal broad attract; very like nation mega-star Morgan Wallen, he’s ceaselessly self-effacing and self-deprecating, each as a approach of performing relatability and as a approach of preempting any ethical objections to his tone. Like Wallen, he’s already confessed to being an imperfect narrator and commentator, so how will you hate him for it?
His stand-up comedy weaponizes this technique as properly. At one level throughout a 2012 Comedy Central particular, he pauses mid-sentence to admonish people who find themselves laughing on the “unsuitable” a part of a joke about Black folks. “That’s not the joke, folks which are laughing, that’s racism,” he says, in the midst of a string of jokes filled with racist assumptions. The admonishment features as each a deflection and a protection.
In fact, many comedians imagine the reason for comedy itself makes it an unimpeachable excessive floor that justifies the efficiency of outlandish and offensive materials, and likewise lament the rise of fabled “woke scolds” who criticize comedy that targets the susceptible and the marginalized. Not like different related comics — Shane Gillis involves thoughts — who’ve doubled down on their offensive materials in recent times, Von tends to keep away from falling again on this rhetoric and largely appears to keep away from the dialog altogether. He’s thinking about pushing the buttons, however he’s not so thinking about pointing to the results he may face for pushing them. Very similar to Rogan, whereas he aligns with Trump on vibes, and his jokes ceaselessly give trolls and racists permission to chortle for all of the unsuitable causes, his personal politics appear much more middle-of-the-road. In comedy, that successfully makes him a average.
Trump’s look on Von’s present, then, only a week after Sanders, says one thing concerning the breadth and potential of those so-called dipshits in his viewers. That two main figures from both aspect of the political spectrum selected to look on a former Highway Guidelines-er’s video podcast is an incredibly in-kind consequence for a contemporary web tradition that turns comedians into influencers and podcasters into pundits. Who will finally win their hearts — and votes — stays the query.